Daniel Dercksen talks to director Michael Lessac and cast members Andrew Buckland, Sibulele Ggilitshana, Nick Boraine, Thembi Mtshali-Jones, Robert Koen and Quanita Adam at the  opening night performance of TRUTH IN TRANSLATION at the Baxter Theatre in Cape Town on February 16, 2007.

YOUR VIEWS ON THE PRODUCTION?
MICHAEL LESSAC:  I'm getting more and more excited as we go along. It just gets better and better. I have the privilege of working with the finest and most passionate actors that I have ever worked with in my life, and I've worked with a lot of actors. This is collaboration between the actors, translators, all of us. It's an amazing thing and a truly South African thing how this was put together out of people's stories, out of people's memories, out of people's fears, out of people's joys.
ANDREW BUCKLAND:  It has really been such an important and amazing experience to be part of. It has been an extraordinary learning experience both from a theatrical and personal point of view. Ones involvement in the material, and also the way in which the work developed in an environment set up by the director - in which actors were really able and challenged to draw from each other, to take care of each other -  to develop the material out of that has really been inspiring. What one sees on the stage is so much an amalgam of the actors who are there, and the characters of the translators.  The authenticity of that is really exciting to play and I hope amazing to watch.
SIBULELE GGILITSHANA: We bring a lot of our own personal stories in the production. We need stories that reminds us as South Africans about the time we decided that we are going to forgive each other and we want a life together. We are celebrating that in the show.
NICK BORAINE: It was the first time we were looking at something political and making something so personal out of it. When you look at the personal, it comes with the darkness, the humour, the madness, and I absolutely liked Michael's vision of what this could be eventually.
THEMBI MTSHALI-JONES: Everything came from us as actors, telling stories and bringing our own experiences as actors and as people who have lived in South Africa.
ROBERT KOEN: At this point in its development the production is an animal. It's alive to the point where it breathes. It's alive on its own. And we as an ensemble live with it. When things are not going well with somebody in the cast, this animal is slightly sick and we can all feel it.
QUANITA ADAMS: We are in the process of creating a living memorial to the TRC. South Africans are quite cynical and they are quick to judge. Often at times, when speaking to other South Africans, the glass is always half empty. What this play is, is about providing an opportunity to see the glass if half full. It is to provide the youth, who are becoming increasingly detached from that part of our history an opportunity to see an experience in a meaningful way.     

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE RAISED IN TRUTH IN TRANSLATION?
MICHAEL LESSAC:  You can draw hope out of the most complex series of emotions, and if you allow yourself to drop your mask, understand that if you drop your mask you won't die, and understand that if you drop your mask you might be able to see other people differently.
ANDREW BUCKLAND: For me, the involvement in the show is really important, and for people to see it.  The TRC happened eleven years ago and many people have been lulled into the feeling that it has happened then, and now it is all finished, and thank goodness, we have all forgiven each other and everything is going to be lovely and its all reconciliation. All the TRC did was provide a model for us, how we can live our lives each day, learn to forgive ourselves and forgive everybody else, and see the humanity in others. If we keep returning to those stories, and see them in the context of today, to remind ourselves of the meaning of those stories, and how we face our world today, everyday. I think Truth in Translation successfully does that, without being just a morbid history remembering the terrible time.
SIBULELE GGILITSHANA: It is so easy for us as humans to turn each other and become anything. As humans we must stop ourselves from doing such things (killing each other)
NICK BORAINE: Ultimately I think it is about our own personal truths. If we look at the Truth Commission it was kind of very political, trying to get people to talk to each other. I hope people will leave this show with the understanding that truth in their own personal lives is so important.  You know, you can commit genocide at the breakfast table, and I think that people need to be aware of that. That's what we try to do, we try to look at the interpersonal relationships and how they are restricted by truth, and how they can be infected with forgiveness, which is an extraordinary thing.
THEMBI MTSHALI-JONES: How we are trying to deal with ourselves, how we are dealing with the reconciliation, and how we are dealing with the New South Africa. Truth and Reconciliation came and went, and people forget. As much as we forget, it is still at the back of our minds. That is provoking the issue again, 'have we really reconciled as people?'
ROBERT KOEN: That telling a story does something to you, whether it's your own story or not. But the retelling of a story is powerful. It's powerful to the storyteller, and to the person listening to it. Even though these stories are not always 'lekker' to tell, and easy to tell, we have to keep on telling our stories. It's important that we tell our stories.
QUANITA ADAMS: The issue of storytelling and giving a voice to the voiceless. What we show in the production is that when you don't speak out, bad things can happen to you, and you will poison yourself and ultimately people who are close to you. 

WHAT DO YOU HOPE AUDIENCES WILL GET FROM WATCHING TRUTH IN TRANSLATION?
MICHAEL LESSAC:  What I really want people to go away with is that if it happened once, even for the shortest moment in time, it can happen again. And here was a country that was on the verge of a bloodbath, and they prevented it, they avoided it, with all the problems, with all the warts, with all of the ugliness as well as the beauty. Now we have a planet that's on the verge of a bloodbath. This thing that has happened here I believe truly has never happened anywhere else in the world. I believe it's an evolutionary leap for the human psyche. And I believe that if we can carry the humour that's buried in 'Ubuntu' ... and I know it may be naive to even think about it, but to me, to the rest of the world it is not naive. It is brand new.   It's another way of thinking, of how we can possibly live in each other shoes, and not kill each other, and it's also a way .. what 'Ubuntu' really says is that if I kill you I kill myself.
ANDREW BUCKLAND: Stimulating, thought provoking and moving theatre. The way in which the dark material is dealt with is so often through humour, and that humour allows one to be open to ones feelings about those situations. Sometimes the material is shocking and quite disturbing but it is in the context of lightness, so that we are reminded of each other's humanity.  I think confronting ourselves in this positive, creative way, is a miracle.
SIBULELE GGILITSHANA: We remind ourselves of we are and where we come from, and never forget the issues that we have because if we forget, it is likely possible, that we could repeat what we have done to each other. We should never forget to teach the next generation. Before we can forward we have to deal with our pain.
NICK BORAINE: I'm hoping they will walk away with just having a good laugh, having really something to think about. And also something to remember. I think the TRC, the fact that it happened eleven years ago, we need to celebrate that. We need to remember who we are a people. Today, people walk around and they are obsessed with today's issues, which are crime and AIDS and everything, and I think we have to constantly remind ourselves this thing happened, but that it doesn't end there. It's everybody's work and it is every day work.
THEMBI MTSHALI-JONES: I hope it will provoke questions about yourself. You leave and ask yourself what you have been doing since our independence, or have you just gone on with your life and forgot everything, like apartheid never happened. Are we teaching our children as they grow up? These stories are very important for our children. My grand daughter doesn't know the real issues of what happened in this country. When she sees a show like this, she asks questions, and that is very important.   
ROBERT KOEN: Entertainment, fun, humour, laughter, but also something to take home with them. That little bit of inspiration that 'you know what, we are all in this together, and only together will we make this work'. No other way.
QUANITA ADAMS: Joy. I want South Africans to feel proud at having participated in this amazing thing,. I want them to be happy.  I want them to be sad. I want them to go home and argue with their families. I want to go home and challenge the people who are maybe not as positive about where our country is. I want people to be inspired.

WOULD YOU AGREE THAT TRUTH IN TRANSLATION IS AN IMPORTANT THEATRICAL EVENT?
MICHAEL LESSAC: I think it is very important because it never lets the audience off the hook. You don't want to allow an audience to walk away self satisfied, thinking that they truly understand the answers to everything. They have to walk away with hope, knowing that they don't truly understand the answers.
ANDREW BUCKLAND: It's not like any other theatre I have played in. Academics came to watch the previews and a couple of them said that it did not have the standard beginning, middle and end, and that we might lose the audience. But the way it worked together is a kind of tapestry that flows in and out of things. The style of performance is very interesting, stimulating, and quite challenging to play.  It relies absolutely on the ensemble of the company. The music, and the way in which the music is integrated with the work, and how that carries the spirit of the play, is absolutely magical. It's not like a piece of theatre people have seen before.   
SIBULELE GGILITSHANA: This is not a play where it is mostly imaginary characters. Everything in the show is about us humans, it is about us South Africans. It is so much part of me, you, and everybody in the world.
NICK BORAINE: Without a doubt. That's also what attracted me in the beginning. That wasn't the usual approach to theatre, it was quite a pedantic approach at first. But, wow! What a privilege as an actor to be given the time, the space and the integrity to create something, to create slowly, and organically. So often we are confined by time and money as artists. For the first time we really were challenged.
THEMBI MTSHALI-JONES: We've been workshopping everyday. Even before the show, we come with new ideas. It's been very provocative, even for us as actors. We have black and white actors on stage. Sometimes we will fight because we are coming up with different ideas and are always challenged, which has been wonderful for me as an actor. I love to be challenged.
ROBERT KOEN: It's been a while since I've seen a production like this in South Africa, where boundaries are broken, when it comes to the development of the script, the development of the music. Theatre wise I think it's an important production in a sense that it looks different, it sounds different, and it starts and ends different to your average, traditional piece of theatre.
QUANITA ADAMS: There are some groundbreaking elements. It suddenly occurred to me last night (night before opening in Cape Town), wow, the audience come in and there's a live jazz band on stage. I have never seen a production where there's a jazz band on stage. I think in terms of theatre, it very different to the kind of theatre that people often get to see in South Africa. We expect quite a lot from the audience. It's not going to be a comfortable journey.

HUMOUR IS AN IMPORTANT ELEMENT IN THE SHOW?
MICHAEL LESSAC: It's crucial. I never cast an actor without a sense of humour because, and for the very simple reason that humour is the only emotion that cannot be faked. Every other human emotion can be faked. Humour cannot be faked. It is probably the only one total complete thing that will help us survive. If we had that humour, it's very, very, very hard to kill somebody who you laughed with.
ANDREW BUCKLAND: It's the vehicle through which we are able to revisit those dark  events, and those dark aspects of ourselves in a way that reminds us that we are all human and all have those failings, and that hope and that courage.
SIBULELE GGILITSHANA: There's so much heavy stuff that we are dealing with, we have got to release it somehow. That's the best thing we have been given as humans. To laugh sometimes. We can laugh at each other, we can laugh at things. We heal our souls in a way. 
NICK BORAINE: It's dark humour. Some people don't know when to laugh, or they catch themselves laughing at something they feel they shouldn't be laughing at. I think the translators had to deal with that. We as a society, we have to laugh at ourselves. It is the only way forward. The old adage 'Laughter is the Best Medicine', it holds.
THEMBI MTSHALI-JONES: Even during apartheid itself we were able to stand back and laugh at ourselves.
ROBERT KOEN: It's funny what people laugh at sometimes. Every now and then we ask ourselves 'why did I laugh at that?'.  'Was it really funny?' It's such an important release for a human being, laughter, and the darker the humour, the louder the laughter. It's something we should not deny. It's like crying. Since we were small we were told not to cry, you can't acknowledge that emotion.  We are allowed to cry. It's very important that we cry. It's crucial to our survival that we laugh at ourselves, that we don't take ourselves too seriously. It is also crucial to our survival that we are able to cry.
QUANITA ADAMS: As South Africans it's been one of our best tools, the way that we have learned to combat a lot of the tensions, issues, and anxieties that we suffer as South Africans. If you tell people that the show is about the TRC  and deals with post-apartheid issues, people do just want to jump in front of a truck. But you add humour to it, and suddenly it becomes human in a weird way. Humour is the one thing really that joins everybody. We all laugh at things that are funny. Often the interpreters' sees that the way that they dealt that they deal with their anxieties was humour. Sometimes the humour was dark and sick, but it is always there. It makes information easier to swallow if it's funny.

WHAT DOES TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION MEAN TO YOU?
MICHAEL LESSAC: You know I started this because I thought I was doing a show about forgiveness. I didn't really understand ... I didn't believe in forgiveness when I first came here. I thought it was a trick. I thought forgiveness was a kind of trick that the powerful use to keep the non-powerful down. When I spoke to Desmond Tutu he said something that I will never forget: "Michael, until you really forgive ... If you think that I am asking you to consider forgiveness because all people are good, that's not it at all. I'm asking you to consider forgiveness because all of us have the capacity for the worst evil, the most horrifying evil, even myself."  Once I heard that I knew everything had to revolve around that, everything!
ANDREW BUCKLAND: It's very difficult to have reconciliation without truth. What was so positive about this process here was that it was not going after retributive justice. It was time to find a restorative justice that in order for any reconciliation to happen, that truth is absolutely vital. Whether that applies politically, or personally, those are key elements of us being able to get on with each other.
SIBULELE GGILITSHANA: It's owning what you really believe in  as a person. It is something that we should be practising every day with your neighbours, your family. With little things you could do so much damage. It is about caring about the smallest things, and that connects you with every other person that you would meet later on. That you are able to become one.
NICK BORAINE: More and more it means looking at the personal. We've moved out of the political arena and we have look at our own lives, our own communities, and where we conduct our lives. It's very easy to criticise, to stand up and shout at things you don't agree with. When we talk about Truth and Reconciliation, it's about making peace with ourselves these days. It's about looking at ourselves and really trying to come some form of peace with our families, with our communities, with our extended communities. If we can start to do that, and start to work, everyday, at Truth and reconciliation, then I think we have a chance.
THEMBI MTSHALI-JONES: Forgiving your past, or forgiving things that has happened to you, or forgiving yourself. For me, forgiveness is not something that can happen now when somebody says 'forgive and forget'. It's a working process. It's something we have to work on all the time, which this show is about. We really have to work towards our forgiveness, but it is not something that is going to happen overnight. We don't talk about it. It is something that is there and one day it will spark up, so it is very important that we keep dealing with the issues.  We should not shy away from it and say that it is done, because it is not done, it is there, we have to keep on writing, and painting these pictures. All the time. 
ROBERT KOEN:  More now that it did before. To me, truth has a very powerful meaning, especially after this production. It's sacred; it's something I hold within me, something I believe in. It's like karma, I believe that truth has power, and if you allow truth in your life, if you stick to truth, if you live the truth, it will come back in that sense. It is powerful; it has proved itself to me. Reconciliation on the other hand is not something that could have happened, it didn't happen, it is still happening. It's not something that was supposed to happen, or that happened ten years ago. Reconciliation is a daily process. It's waking up in the morning and saying to yourself: 'Today I will not be ugly to someone, today I will not be nasty to someone,' and then each other day holding to your promise. That is reconciliation. It's a daily process.
QUANITA ADAMS: It means that the only way that you van can legitimately resolve issues is by being honest. Once you know the truth, you can't unknow that. You have to act on that. Withholding the truth is one of those things that can just never work out. The only way that you can resolve things and that you can reconcile, is if you are equipped with all the information. It was a big thing for us, because you had to reach a point where you say: 'This white man did this because what he did was right." It might not be my truth, but it is his truth, and so it doesn't make him any less sorry. We just got to meet people where they are. 

AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE IN TRUTH IN TRANSLATION IS THAT MUSIC UNITES?
ANDREW BUCKLAND: That is a visceral way of attaching to the audiences, where without any intellect or thinking what it means, you are immediately drawn in. The music also has cultural qualities that can touch anybody. That's a magical part of the play. I wait for each song.
SIBULELE GGILITSHANA: In the history of South Africa we have always had song. With music, there's always dance. There is a certain rhythm that we have as human beings. There is something that music does, there's healing in music. In this show it also plays that role. Whether it is sung in Xhosa, Zulu, Afrikaans, or in English, every song takes you on a journey and it goes into your soul.
NICK BORAINE: Without a doubt, especially in this country.  We are so blessed in Africa, to live in a place where music is and rhythm is part of all our souls. That's what we try and do in the show. It's not just about singing a song and then doing a scene. The songs, the scenes, the humour, the darkness, the madness, the lightness ... it all operates on one plane, and yet on different levels at the same time.
THEMBI MTSHALI-JONES: Even today, when you go to our parliament, our parliamentarians, they sing, which shows music is our food of life.
ROBERT KOEN:  Definitely, especially in Africa. Hugh Masekela told us a funny story. He said that during the struggle, the black people's fall down was that they would sing, so the white people could hear exactly where they were hiding. And then they would say: "Don't bomb them right now, let them finish their song. It's nice." Africa and music is synonymous with each other
QUANITA ADAMS: There are CDs in this country that are called 'songs of the struggle.' One of the elements that really galvanised people was anthems, it was music. Hugh Masekela has been so involved in so many protest songs in our country's history. You don't have to speak a language to sing a song, a tune. You don't have to understand the words to feel the melodies, rhythms and the harmonies. Somebody said to me that if we did not use music in the show it would have been harrowing. That's not to say the music, the content of the songs, is not disturbing. Some of the songs are really disturbing. Hugh Masekela took testimonies and turned them into beautiful musical compositions. It is also one of those things that makes information easier to receive. 

Copyright © 2007 Daniel Dercksen